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What's your opinion about our organized raids?

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What's your opinion about our organized raids? (Check all that apply)

6% 6% [ 3 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
14% 14% [ 7 ]
2% 2% [ 1 ]
6% 6% [ 3 ]
16% 16% [ 8 ]
18% 18% [ 9 ]
24% 24% [ 12 ]
8% 8% [ 4 ]
4% 4% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 49

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Whelan

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Moderator
Edit: From 17 OCT to 21 OCT Raid times will be as follows:

6:00PM(EST)
9:30PM(EST)

If we are unable to get at least 5 guild members per time period we will be suspending scheduled raids during the weekdays unless people give feedback.


Due to the recent decline in the number of people participating in the scheduled Guild Raid Parties, I am making this poll to see if peoples minds have changed about them. These scheduled raids were originally set up due to all the people complaining about always having to PUG the daily raids since they couldn't get in to the guild runs that occurred randomly. In recent weeks however the amount of people participating in these scheduled runs has gone from us needing multiple groups to maybe filling up half party worth of guild members and people PUGing all their raids.

So I am asking for maximum participation in this poll so we can determine if we will: Keep the current schedule, Modify the schedule to accommodate more Guild members, or Remove the scheduled runs all together.

In Addition to voting, please post your own opinions on the current scheduled runs and if you think something with them needs to be changed or not.

Sev

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Whelan wrote:Due to the recent decline in the number of people participating in the scheduled Guild Raid Parties, I am making this poll to see if peoples minds have changed about them. These scheduled raids were originally set up due to all the people complaining about always having to PUG the daily raids since they couldn't get in to the guild runs that occurred randomly. In recent weeks however the amount of people participating in these scheduled runs has gone from us needing multiple groups to maybe filling up half party worth of guild members and people PUGing all their raids.

So I am asking for maximum participation in this poll so we can determine if we will: Keep the current schedule, Modify the schedule to accommodate more Guild members, or Remove the scheduled runs all together.

In Addition to voting, please post your own opinions on the current scheduled runs and if you think something with them needs to be changed or not.

I think the raid times should remain the same, but at the same time not everyone is able to join. I would suggest we add in an extra raid time like a 9pm run. Or we could have a 2nd party running at 4pm and 7pm for any overload. And for those who can't make those times, they could either wait till 11pm or pug it. Our 11pm raids are always half PUG nowadays Shock

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Whelan

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Moderator
Sev wrote:
I think the raid times should remain the same, but at the same time not everyone is able to join. I would suggest we add in an extra raid time like a 9pm run. Or we could have a 2nd party running at 4pm and 7pm for any overload. And for those who can't make those times, they could either wait till 11pm or pug it. Our 11pm raids are always half PUG nowadays Shock

the issue is that all the raids are filled with half or more pugs, even the 7pm raids.

Feathery

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Sr. Moderator
I agree with Sev that some people just can't make it to certain raid times. I, for example.. don't get off work till a certain time... and I can't stay up as late as I used to for the 11 pm raids. Because of this, I've been pugging all of my runs.

However, I'm not sure if setting up an extra raid slot would lessen the amount of pugs in a guild run. Maybe instead of adding another time slot, we should just adjust the raid times. I suggest that everyone not only vote, put type down a time they're available to do the raids.

For me, it's weekdays from 6:00 p.m.-10:00 p.m EST; anytime on weekends.



Last edited by Feathery on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Sev

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Whelan wrote:
Sev wrote:
I think the raid times should remain the same, but at the same time not everyone is able to join. I would suggest we add in an extra raid time like a 9pm run. Or we could have a 2nd party running at 4pm and 7pm for any overload. And for those who can't make those times, they could either wait till 11pm or pug it. Our 11pm raids are always half PUG nowadays Shock

the issue is that all the raids are filled with half or more pugs, even the 7pm raids.

I encourage anyone who is online during 11pm to join for raids. I can't suggest anything other than encouraging others to join us for guild raid runs instead of pugging. Why deal with the headache of pugging raids? The only reason I suggested adding extra raid times because I'm assuming people can't make it to 4pm or 7pm, but I wouldn't know since I'm always at work during those times. Why!

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ShiroWhite

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Guild Master
This is a discussion we definitely need to have and to have everyone's input on. I know for awhile there Whelan, Lojan, Po, and myself were hosting raids steadily without a problem. Then peoples interest in doing the full set fell off. People were just joining for Glas and Thor then bailing on the rest. I think the problem we're having now is some of our hosts aren't able to make it on time and everyone assumes that there will be no guild raids. So they just PUG instead. Originally when I started hosting I hoped it would set an example for guildies to follow not to create a dependency on the few who host consistently.


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~~I Stole Steve's Bunny.

Rei

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Sr. Moderator
Since there hasn't been many full guild raid runs lately, I wouldn't suggest adding another guild raid time (since that would "spread" the number of people per run), so I think that we should drop one, leaving 2 guild runs, like one at 4-5ish and the other at 11. I know that many people have work or school and can't make certain times, but I guess that's how things are and it wont be possible to accommodate everyone with a specific time. Perhaps later (maybe during winter break), 2 guild runs won't be enough to get everyone in, so we would have to add a 3rd raid run.

As for the times, I am available at around 8:00-11:00 EST; any times on weekends.


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"Beauty is a harmonious relation between something in our nature and the quality of the object which delights us"


Valcier

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Im kind of leaning towards Rei's idea. I like the 4 pm raids cause most of my classes are out by then, I only work from 4-9 on wednesdays (9-1 on fridays ), and my club doesn't start till 7. I'd be able to catch the 4 pm raids pretty easily, unless i have a mountain of homework (like this week) or if i have a midterm/final (also this week). Well that's it for my 2 cents. Oh by the way

my connection isn't awsome but I can host raids here at school or at home (where the connection is awsome) if that helps with anything. But again, i probably wouldn't make a reliable host cause I DO get a lot of homewprk, and study work, and webwork and......now im depressed.....

Breannenn

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lol Val


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Zuagy


I like the idea of shortening 3 guild raids to 2 guild raids only...at least on the weekdays. A lot of people have work and school now so their time on is very limited. I admit I am one of those people who has been pugging a lot lately. This is a busy month for me so I usually log on, get camp buff and then start doing raids...that way I can go study.

Times I might be able to do guild raids are anywhere between 5pm-11pm on weekdays. Just about any time on weekends.

Whelan

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Moderator
Please continue to give idea/comments the more feedback given will give us a better information on how the current raid schedule needs might be changed. The thought of decreasing from 3 times to 2 is a good idea we can look into, might even have 2 groups do the runs at about the same time if enough people are interested in this idea.

As Shiro mentioned some people seem to either just wait for guild runs for a couple of the raids and either PUG the rest or just don't do them, changing guild runs into half PUG runs.

Then there's those that PUG before or between the current scheduled runs even though they are still on during and after the scheduled times. This may be due to fact that I've noticed people seem to only use this forum for just posting their application and don't bother looking at anything else.

For those that weren't around when the scheduled raids were started:
The current times of: 4pm, 7pm, 11pm were chosen was to try and accommodate as many peoples schedules as possible and were shifted from the original times to allow time for the addition of Glas.

4pm: for those that work at night and those that have school.

7pm: was for those that have normal working hours and those that cant make the 4pm while allowing time for dinner.

11pm: was for those that couldn't make the above times due to 2nd shift work hours or any other reasons.

But please continue to provide your input and when the game comes back online send inform other members that just use Guild Chat for information about this discussion so when we decide on any changes to Raid Schedule we can try to incorporate as many people as possible.

xJac

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The question is, are the people who want to do raids on at those times?

Some people don't want to do raids, me for example, don't feel like dragging everyone behind because I lags badly (using integrated graphic card atm > >). Some people got bored of those raid and didn't feel like doing it over and over. And some people just aren't there yet, level too low or quest aren't unlocked.

Instead of trying to input a good guild raid time that people would come, we should have everyone who wants to participate in guild raid input in their possible raid time, and we work from there. (spiting people into groups, assigning raid hosts, coming up with the raid times etc)
If they want to join the guild raid, they need at least contribute something, and right now it's only coming on forum and listing their playing time, how hard is that?

Once we know how many people are on at when, we can easily split the hosts. Just make sure the people know they are in a guild raid in advance, so they save their raid for it.

If someone can't come one day, just notify (post on forum) in advanced that he wouldn't make it, so people won't be waiting for him too long.


Obviously there will be people who have irregular time, people like me, might not be able to play on the same time everyday due to real life factor. We can be like a freelance, or spot fill. If we didn't make it in guild raids, we will just pug.


Making a guild raid happen requires everyone's effort, not just the hosts and admins scratching their hair off to make it work. If someone wants to join a raid, they need to say so. No point hosting a raid on time where everyone on has already done it, don't want to do it, or not level yet to do it.



sidenote: If there's way too many freelance, and little to non regular, then most likely the guild raid won't be happening on an 4pm time either. Or raid can happens at different times at different day of the week, but that gets really complicated, let's just see the playing time for people first.


Daily raids take a lot time to complete, some people just don't feel like doing all of them. It could be much more efficient that people list raids they want (not don't mind doing, they need to want) to do, and we sort it out from there. (For example, some people might only want to do glas and thor, while some people might only titan and aghlan unlocked, and rest of the group wants to do all, you just have titan/aghlan takes thor/glas spot) or all or most of the group member only wants to do thor/glas, then you just do these two.


Also, if we make the group beforehand, there won't be another scene like the raid host asking "anyone want to do raids" in the guild chat for over 10 min. Things can be done more efficiently.


Just my 2 cents.

Whelan

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Moderator
That is why the current set up is in place already. Many people used to complain about wanting to do guild runs so Shiro, Lojan, and myself(Po volunteering to help us when it was put in action and we needed more good hosts) started talking about setting up times to make it more organized. If you take the time and read through the original Incoming Raids post you'd see that we asked for peoples available times to determine the current times. the reasons for the times that I used were from people's own reasons for when they were available.

When we started the scheduled raids there were times we had 2 parties going simultaneously during one of the raid times. Over the past few weeks however people have just started to PUG some of the raids at one time and wait till scheduled time for others.

As far as using guild chat constantly, its because, as you may or may not have noticed, many people don't take the time to read the nice red text announcement shiro has posted on the guild home page. Even after I put this post up and told people in guild chat about it I got responses of, "we have scheduled guild raid times?"

As far as using forums to organize everything that's the point of this discussion: trying to reorganize the times if people still want to do the guild runs, and if not we no longer waste the time of those that either wait patiently and the few of that organize these raids. So that we're not sitting around for 10+minutes asking people/AFKers if they want to join, to get no response until after the boats leave when people finally ask if they can join in.

Also like you said some of us do have real world shit to deal with sometimes and I don't know about you but I don't always have the time to get on the forums to post a message saying that I won't be there that day, as generally stuff comes up at the last minute.

As for setting up predetermined groups, we talked about this in the beginning but if you do this you don't get to have the experience of playing with different members of the guild which I don't know about you but to me that sounds like a guild in side a guild which defeats the point of the guild as a whole.

And again if you look at the post Meet the Honor Guard Admins you'd see that we have raid hosts/organizers already set up.The reason why only the four of us are designated as hosts/organizers is to try and cut-down on the confusion of a bunch of people starting up parties and ending up with many small parties instead of one full party (this has happened a few times where someone else will start up a party while another is waiting on 1-2 stragglers to finish a run, and then watch people leave the original group to join the other party, causing the time to fill the party to take longer).

As far as how long it takes to complete all the daily raids, during the Loot and Plunder Event that I didn't realize was going on and couldn't be on at those times, I managed to PUG all the daily raids within 1hr 40min(back when Glas still took almost 20min to beat), due to the fact that it didn't take so long to get a party together. Amazing isn't it, if it didn't take 10-30min to get even 5 people from the guild besides the host to make a decent party it wouldn't take so long to complete the raids. (Notice where this is going?)

As far as being bored with the raids because of doing them over and over, what else are most of the people that can do all the raids doing? That's right farming, the process of doing the same run over and over to find one rare drop and usually the people doing this are asking for other guild members to help them some times asking in guild chat for a few minutes.

As far as people not having all the raids unlocked I understand this and that's why, if you've ever seen it, if people can only do certain raids I invite them during those raids or change the order I launch the raids to accommodate them and if I have the time, usually weekends, I volunteer to help them unlock the raids if they'd like the help.

P.S. This in not an attack on anybody and if it seems to come out that way I apologize. I'm just trying to get a point across and this issue has been irritating me for the past few weeks. The only reason I continue to wait until 7pm to do raids is because for some reason if I don't people complain or wonder whats going on, when I do the 7pm raid party almost nobody joins.

I'm trying to help as many people out and give them the guild experience that they deserve and joined for. Yet for some reason some people just don't seem to want to return the favor to help us help all of you.

Breannenn

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Well said Whelan, well said.


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pothemartial

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(To answer the question, my preferred raid time is from 6pm to 11pm)
Sup guards,

thx Whelan for bringing this up. Our guild raiding schedule and policy need to be clarified/adjusted. Organizing a party really gets frustrating sometimes, especially for the hosts, therefore I understand Whelan on this completely. In fact, I could have easily found some friends/get into their daily raid parties and gotten raids done painlessly&timely. However I still try to host as much as I can to make sure guildies' need of raiding gets covered since we all know how painful PUGs can be. I am simply trying to help. Honestly, it is a matter of communication regarding how are we admins(usually the regular hosts by far) are communicating with guildies in attempt to meet everyone's need on raids. As Jac mentioned, it is easier to figure out a better schedule once we know everyone's preferable raid time. I am glad everyone is trying to make this work.

Let's review our current schedule. Current set up is 4pm(usually hosted by me),7pm(me/Whelan),11pm(Lojan/Sev). Sometimes Nina went online at 9pm and built another raid party(this also means there is demand at this hour). We don't have any raid times before 4pm but I know people are doing raids since 1pm when raids refreshed, not the majority of guild but there are a few(even knigh6 and Shiro have to PUG at 1pm sometimes on their alts). Evening raid around 4pm/5pm is good since that is when ppl. start getting home from work/school. I personally do not prefer hosting 7pm raids anymore since it is my dinner hour, but it is up to Whelan if 7pm raids work for him. Lojan usually went on around 11pm or a bit later and host late night raids. My suggestion is, we should consider putting up raid time at 2pm(Shiro?, and I can host this at weekend) or at least 8pm/9pm(me hosting) since there are demands(we will see how the polling goes). Non-the-less, besides Shiro, me, Whelan, Lojan and Sevy, if there is anyone else in our guild is able and willing to host for others, by all means, feel free to do it, as long as you keep other host(such as Shiro/me) posted that you are hosting.

pothemartial

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Besides the schedule thingy, I want to talk about other issues Whelan mentioned, such as building a party and maintain the party during raiding. We are making sure everyone gets into guild parties here, sure, but that can create a problem: there may not be enough players in the party at certain hour, there may be demands of raiding, but not enough for an 8 men party; but if we go on another extreme direction and set up ONLY 2 or 3 raid times in a day, there will be a significant number of people feeling left out(again, the number may be smaller than 8 players). The direct solution is to recruit more guildies and let them fill the gap in number, but that is only happening in the long run. This is also why i consider a 4 or 5 raiding-hours schedule is more reasonable judging by we have 12+ active guildies in average all the time.
Still, there are some policies we can use, or at least become a guideline on building a raid party:
1, speak out at least 10 mins before you are going to host, so other people will know you are hosting and get ready for raids a bit earlier.
2,tell the incoming participants to whisper the host when they are ready for invite to party. it is easier for the host to keep track.
3,announce and make sure party will be departed in within 15 mins, if host is waiting on certain guildie. because averagely speaking, 15 mins is around time for a non-break-off raid to be finished. if a guildie is making the party waiting for more than 15 mins, he is either AFKed/fell asleep like me when I do 11pm raids with lojan, LOL/simply not ready for raids in anywhere soon. I consider this to be a good rule of thumb and shall be shared among guildies.
4, Meet your host and party members voluntarily at channel 150 campfire, it is easier to keep track this way and you are going to get campfire buff anyway.

In regarding of people bailing out after doing few raids(glas&thor?), now we cannot really force other ppl. to value all the raids,it is simply impossible and unreasonable to do so. After all, it is nothing unethical to not finish all the raids and everyone has their freedom of choices(take knight6 as example, he simply hates Ingkells, LOL,i like Inkgells).But there are feel tips I'd like to share to make the Raiding going when this happens:
1,Start with more than one raid parties! If both parties have spots after a while, they can merge into one and keep going. Whelan and I always maintain clear conversation when we are hosting party respectively at a same time, therefore we know what to do if one's party is low at number. Here i need to make a point about fairness, tho. For example, if there are 12 players in total(including 2 hosts) can do raids, the 12 players should be split into 6 men team each, therefore, easier for both teams to maintain a few good runs in similar speed and merge when players start dropping out from the party. This will be the most ideal solution. In this case, a host should not inviting all 7 players into his own party and thinking:"oh the other host(usually me :x) will take care of the rest 4 people or w/e." And the other party has only 4 HG players in team, and end up running way slower with PUGs and get completely out of number after few more guildies dropping out of party. Even if the 1st host's party has spots, they prob. have done the battle that players in the 2nd party wanted to do, while the 2nd party hanging around with 2 players in team in total.
2,Make "6 men or less" oath if you are going to PUG. Don't be afraid of PUGs! you will be surprised how much it will bring up the quality of the PUG players you receive. Most down PUG players are looking for 8 men boat since they are not confident enough in their skill and wanting other players to carry them in a full 8 men party, and that's exactly where u get the most of this kind. PUGs can be valuable to the team, especially if you are raiding at prime raiding hour such as 1pm to 2pm. Most veteran players do raids as soon as raids refresh at 1pm.
3, Invite your friends over to fill the gap in the team! I am sure you know some friends that are not bad at gaming at all but they are just not in an organized guild like us/getting left out. It will be a win-win solution.

I hope that I have clarified a few things and my tips are helpful to y'all, thank you! :)

Rock on

Po

xJac

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I like Po's idea.

But, instead of waiting for a person for 10 min, I think it's nicer to have the guildie to inform in advance that he/she will be going on a raid party, and when the guild raid time starts, you just go off with whoever you have.

If a lot people missed the raid, most likely the raid is too early, and just adjust the raid slightly back in time, so they can join the raid at that time.

The 2 parties sound reasonable as well, especially in balancing the team.


I guess the real problem lies in guild members (especially new guild member) not coming to the guild forum for events/news.

I am more than happy to donate gold for something like a guild raffle, contest etc. I am pretty sure a lot guild members (especially the new ones) would be interested in getting gold/weapons for their character. Obviously it happens on forum, and they would need to check forum regularly to get into one.

That's just some incentive for people to come on forum. As big as our guild is, there isn't much activity on the guild forum. Either force them, or make them want to come.

pothemartial

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xJac wrote:I like Po's idea.

But, instead of waiting for a person for 10 min, I think it's nicer to have the guildie to inform in advance that he/she will be going on a raid party, and when the guild raid time starts, you just go off with whoever you have.

If a lot people missed the raid, most likely the raid is too early, and just adjust the raid slightly back in time, so they can join the raid at that time.

The 2 parties sound reasonable as well, especially in balancing the team.


I guess the real problem lies in guild members (especially new guild member) not coming to the guild forum for events/news.

I am more than happy to donate gold for something like a guild raffle, contest etc. I am pretty sure a lot guild members (especially the new ones) would be interested in getting gold/weapons for their character. Obviously it happens on forum, and they would need to check forum regularly to get into one.

That's just some incentive for people to come on forum. As big as our guild is, there isn't much activity on the guild forum. Either force them, or make them want to come.
awesome dude! the raffle sounds like an ingenious idea, man! i start wondering if ur in the business world, LOL
yes a raffle, it will attract new members to get on and start using guild forum if the price is attractive enough.

Cheers
Po

ShiroWhite

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Guild Master
Whelan you definitely hit the nail on the head there with a couple of your points. So far the poll is definitely pointing towards a restructure of the raid times. And if anyone does see a guild mate online that hasn't read this over can we please refer them to this thread? That being said I have seen people trying to do raids pretty early PUGing before our raids start. Maybe 4pm was too much time to wait? I like Po's idea of hosting one at 2pm but we should find out who's available for that. Anyone in high school or who works days is most likely out of the question during most of the week.

It's good that we're getting this out of the way before new content. Hope we can come to a solid conclusion, I personally still like doing all the raids but I do understand it does eat up a lot of time. I haven't and won't be able to be on very consistently near the end of the week or on weekends but I do try to hop on. Maybe I can host early raids if we can arrange something like that. But yeah generally on the weekend I'm out of the house from 1:00PM EST - 11:00PM EST. Sunday being the exception, I can make it home around 6:00PM EST.


I think we need to come to an understanding as a guild that we have a great community of players and we should be able to rely on each other regardless of the party configuration. If said hosts aren't available at said time I would hope that we could count on each other to set one up and host at the appropriate time. We just need a standard routine, trying to accommodate day to day schedules will only end in gray hairs.


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( (
( -'.')
(,(")(")
~~I Stole Steve's Bunny.

Lojan

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Enforcer
I will recommend to changes the time frame.

If its 3 raids per day, I will suggest the 5 pm, 8 pm and 10pm time frame for the raids (lot of people do not want to stay until late for 11pm raids)

Else if its 2 raids per day, we should run at 6 pm and 9 pm. ( all time in East time frame)
Bring it ON!

21 i like it how it is on Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:08 am

LazySwords

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normally for me I can only participate in the 11pm raids as my days are kind of iffy and I may have to leave all of a sudden which is why I normally only do the 11pm raids to commit myself to completing all of them with the team. If the times were adjusted earliest I could commit myself would be 10pm any earlier and I may have to leave halfway through a raid which would really make raids unappealing to me as I don't like bailing out. I do understand how some people cant make it at certain times E.G me so maybe we could add another time or we could just adjust or change some of the times a little. that's just my thoughts

ps i cant vote probly not aloud

Noxars

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hmm i like how they are but wouldn't mind a change. i just like the reliability of going with a group of people i know are good.
...i don't know how or what to vote for

Whelan

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Moderator
Noxars wrote:hmm i like how they are but wouldn't mind a change. i just like the reliability of going with a group of people i know are good.
...i don't know how or what to vote for

this is to see if we need to adjust the times in order to fill the guild parties or if people even want to continue with guild runs

Noxars

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um you seem to misunderstand me i know what its about i said i like the set raid but would be open to changing the times, so i don't know what to vote for...
but in any case i don't know how to vote 0.o so... this is my two cents

Whelan

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Moderator
Noxars wrote:um you seem to misunderstand me i know what its about i said i like the set raid but would be open to changing the times, so i don't know what to vote for...
but in any case i don't know how to vote 0.o so... this is my two cents

if u like current schedule of 4, 7, and 11 vote keep. and if u think changing times might be better off vote that way. either way u can still post times that are good for you for raiding

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